- EO Charging offers a turnkey service for car fleets, together with all of the {hardware}, software program and repair parts of the electrification stack. President and Chief Business Officer John Walsh instructed us that the software program and upkeep layers of the stack are the keys to charger reliability.
- Fleets typically overestimate the quantity of energy they’ll have to preserve their EVs charged. Detailed modeling within the early phases of a undertaking, together with good vitality administration, may also help a fleet keep away from the prices and delays concerned with upgrading a utility connection.
- Totally different fleets have completely different infrastructure wants. EO charging affords month-to-month fee plans based mostly on the variety of chargers, kilowatt-hours delivered, or miles traveled, with a purpose to tackle completely different buyer wants.
Q&A with EO Charging’s John Walsh
How is offering charging infrastructure for EV fleets like working a site or a cellular phone community? All of those worthy endeavors (amongst others) depend upon a stack, which is a hip method of describing a system of interrelated {hardware} and software program merchandise that perform collectively.
Some layers of the stack could also be easy, and others could also be complicated. Some could also be seen as commodities, and others might depend upon extremely specialised proprietary expertise. Some could also be set-it-and-forget-it techniques which can be anticipated to work easily, and others could also be—for need of a greater time period—a ache within the neck.
In an rising discipline similar to EV charging infrastructure, it could be arduous for potential clients to determine how the completely different layers of the stack match collectively, and which layers require particular consideration. So as to add to the confusion, the forged of characters is giant, and the relationships amongst them might be complicated—just like the listing of dramatis personae in a Victorian novel. Some firms focus on one layer of the stack, and others provide a turnkey bundle, offering all of the services themselves and/or subcontracting with different companies.
What’s the very best course for a fleet operator to steer? Does it make sense to combine and match completely different firms for various layers of the stack, or is it higher to contract with a turnkey supplier, maybe for a hard and fast month-to-month worth? For some solutions, Charged sat down with John Walsh, President and Chief Business Officer of EO Charging, who defined how the layers of the EV fleet charging infrastructure stack match collectively, and supplied some ideas for patrons.
Charged: What sort of clients does EO Charging serve?
John Walsh: We do all depot charging, so our goal clients are transit authorities, college districts and fleets, similar to Amazon, FedEx, UPS, DHL. Additionally, the truck OEMs which can be beginning to come on-line now—Daimler, Bollinger, Workhorse—we’re focusing on these as properly.
The issue on this business is that everybody’s all concerning the cupboard and the {hardware}. That’s the largest problem with charging at present—everybody thinks, “Man, if I might simply get that wall field on the wall or get that charger within the floor, I’ve obtained what I would like.” And it’s solely the start.
Charged: You had been previously Chief Business Officer at Proterra, an organization that we’ve written about lots. I for one thought it was an ideal firm, and I used to be shocked when issues turned pear-shaped. What occurred?
John Walsh: What occurred to Proterra by the lens of John Walsh may be very disappointing. I left the corporate over a yr in the past, a bit of bit earlier than the storm hit, as a result of I noticed the ship sinking. We went public, we did a SPAC, we had lots of capital that obtained burned by very quick, and…simply mismanagement, I might say, greater than something.
However don’t surrender on Proterra. The corporate was bought in three items—battery techniques, chargers and buses—and there are three completely different house owners now. Proterra had the very best battery expertise on the planet, and it’s nonetheless the very best battery expertise. There are lots of firms that can use their battery techniques and have lots of success. I believe the Volvo Group [which bought Proterra’s battery business] will prosper by the expertise that was given beginning by Proterra.
Sorting by the stack
Charged: For fleets, there are lots of items to the charging puzzle. You have got your personal proprietary software program, and also you provide a full turnkey bundle for fleets.
John Walsh: We do. It’s referred to as a stack, and it’s actually six easy factors.
The primary half is session, the place you sit down and perceive the utility, perceive the depot.
The second piece is your design and your set up—you dig up the bottom and you set the chargers in.
The third bullet is the {hardware}—we do enterprise with about six OEM {hardware} firms. And to us, it’s a buyer’s alternative. We’ll give them what we really feel like are some good options based mostly on the ability ranges that they want. Whenever you discuss to EO Charging, you’re not speaking to ABB, Heliox or Siemens—you’re speaking to all of them as a result of we’re hardware-agnostic.
The fourth piece is the software program. And this is part of the stack that’s actually necessary that folks overlook. The software program is your fourth bullet, then your fifth bullet is upkeep “Oh, wow. You imply it’s important to preserve the chargers?” Nicely, it’s good to preserve your automobile, proper? So, completely.
After which the final piece, and possibly crucial piece we now have, is a technical operations heart [TOC]. You probably have a cellular phone, there’s a technical operations heart that’s resetting your cellphone all day lengthy, and also you don’t even understand it. That’s what we’re capable of do—we are able to see that charger within the floor.
We’ll do elements of the stack a la carte. The one factor we is not going to decouple is the software program and the upkeep. For those who choose a software program supplier and a separate upkeep supplier, then it’s two completely different cellphone calls. That’s what clients are annoyed with. One cellphone name for that full stack—design it for me, put it within the floor, give me the {hardware}, preserve it for me for 10 years—that’s the answer they’re searching for, and that’s what we do.
One in all our authentic buyers was an organization referred to as Amazon, and so they demanded 99% uptime. And that’s what we provide clients. You possibly can ask Amazon, “Inform me about EO, and inform me about your uptime,” and so they’d say it’s 99.7. They’ll let you know that, not us—they’re a really demanding buyer.
“We’ll do elements of the stack a la carte. The one factor we is not going to decouple is the software program and the upkeep.”
Depot chargers are dependable, aren’t they?
Charged: Charger reliability is a scandal, and I strongly suspect that lots of the issues are as a result of there is likely to be half a dozen firms and organizations concerned with a undertaking.
John Walsh: You’ve hit the nail on the top. We do accomplice with sure clients or sure firms. For engineering, we would accomplice with somebody. I’ll accomplice on the prime of the stack, however as soon as it’s within the floor, it’s all me. It’s my software program, it’s my upkeep, it’s my TOC, and that’s the important thing to reliability that everybody’s complaining about.
Charged: Now, I do know you don’t do public charging, you solely do fleet depot charging. I’m guessing the latter doesn’t have as many challenges with reliability. Am I proper?
John Walsh: No.It’s simply as dangerous. I’m sorry to report that reliability with depot chargers is about the identical as with public. I used to be as soon as at an APTA [American Public Transportation Association] assembly—all transit companies—and I requested them, “Who has 90% reliability at your depots? Who has 80% reliability?” It was once I obtained to 70% and 60% that folks began elevating their arms. It’s not a quantity that we’re making up.
If we go to a buyer and so they say, “We’ve obtained three completely different manufacturers of chargers on this large depot as a result of we purchased them at completely different occasions, and we ended up shopping for ABB, Siemens and Heliox,” we are saying we don’t care. They could have to have a look at three screens. They’ve three completely different software program packages and three completely different upkeep techniques. With us, it’s all on one display. I believe that’s actually what our secret sauce is, and that’s the largest promoting level of our firm—the {hardware} is agnostic to the software program, and we’re capable of see the whole lot in a single spot from an operations heart.
“I’m sorry to report that reliability with depot chargers is about the identical as with public. I as soon as requested a gaggle of transit companies about reliability at their depots, and it was solely once I obtained to 70% and 60% that folks began elevating their arms.”
For these about to affect
Charged: How about some handy-dandy ideas for fleet operators? What are a number of the issues that may go unsuitable, and the way can they keep away from them?
John Walsh: The one you hear essentially the most is “You have to pay money for your utility yesterday.” And to me, that’s a broad reply. What does that imply? Once I attain the utility, what do I ask them? There’s so many fleet operators, huge, huge firms, that simply don’t know what to do.
What’s the distinction between a UPS facility and an Amazon facility? They’re most likely 50 years aside. UPS, they’ve been round for an extended, very long time, so that they have buildings that they by no means thought they’d electrify. Then you might have Amazon—most of their buildings are model new, and they’re getting ready for electrification. So, the error I believe will get made is, in case you take UPS for instance, they’re going to say, “We obtained 100 vans. We’ve got to cost all of them. We’ve obtained one megawatt of energy coming into the constructing. We want 5.” And they’re going to instantly contact that utility, as a result of that’s what everybody tells them to do, and inform them, “I would like 4 megawatts extra energy.” And that’s while you hear everyone busting out laughing behind the room.
Nicely, they don’t essentially want as a lot energy as they assume. We do lots of modeling for patrons. “That is what number of automobiles we now have. That is the vitality storage on board, and that is how a lot energy we now have on the depot.” We mannequin for them the scale charger they want, however we additionally assist them handle the vitality as soon as it comes into the constructing. I ship it in two completely different instructions. I ship it to the ability conveyor belts, and I ship it to the chargers, however I’m not going to cost these EVs all day lengthy. I’m going to cost them at particular occasions of night time at a sure energy degree.
Don’t over-capitalize the undertaking. Do your homework and take into consideration how a lot energy you actually need into that facility. You’ll be able to work with the utility on that, but in addition work with firms like EO that can assist you determine that piece out so that you don’t spend a bunch of cash—and I’m speaking hundreds of thousands of {dollars}—to place energy right into a constructing that you just’re by no means going to make use of. That’s most likely the largest mistake I’ve seen in doing 200 deployments on the depot facet.
If we hear a buyer say, “Nicely, we’re simply doing a pilot,” we are saying, “Okay, however the place do you go from there?” They are saying, “I’m going to do 10 buses, and I’m going to do 10 chargers, and let’s see the way it goes.” That’s actually not a good suggestion. What we’re doing lots of proper now with clients that did that 10 years in the past, we’re ripping the whole lot out—rip and change. Now, the expertise’s modified, I’ll offer you that. However on the similar time, they actually didn’t do a correct job of setting themselves as much as scale.
There was a transit authority up in Canada that constructed a brand-new facility, 400 buses beneath one roof. They knew from the start they had been going to cost 400 buses, however they solely did 60 to start with. However the facility, the lanes had been arrange so they may simply add the chargers as they went alongside. All the things within the facility was able to go. Planning for scale is one thing that’s tremendous, tremendous necessary.
“Fleets don’t essentially want as a lot energy as they assume. Don’t over-capitalize the undertaking. Work with firms like EO that can assist you determine that out so that you don’t spend a bunch of cash to place energy right into a constructing that you just’re by no means going to make use of.”
Charged: I think (I’ve a suspicious thoughts about this stuff) that 10 years in the past, a few of these fleets thought, “We obtained a authorities grant, so we’ll do a pilot, and that’ll fulfill the greenies, after which we’ll return to enterprise as standard.”
John Walsh: That’s proper. I believe that’s precisely what they had been considering. Is it political? It may be in some instances the place we now have to take care of a authorities mandate. What I like about Florida, there’s so many shoppers which can be going electrical that don’t should. One of many first electrical fleets within the US was Star Metro, the transit authority in Tallahassee, and people buses function on Florida State’s campus. Now, these buses, 14 years in the past, they solely went 30 miles on a single cost. How did they handle that? They used en route charging. Nicely, at present, on an electrical bus, you may go 250 miles. Now, their chargers are on the depot, like a daily fueling station. They replenish at night time, and so they run all day lengthy.
Cost your fleet for one month-to-month payment
Charged: You provide an entire turnkey service for a month-to-month fee. How does that work?
John Walsh: We’ll bundle our Stage 2 charger with the software program, the upkeep, the technical operations heart, and cost one month-to-month payment—it’s $59. That bundle is basically enticing to lots of fleet clients.
We provide a month-to-month fee by charger, by kilowatt-hour, or by mile. A buyer can select their program, as a result of their wants range. Some clients have lots of idle time. Some clients are placing lots of miles on the market. Some are charging and discharging fairly a bit as properly. I’ve DHL in New York Metropolis, and so they say, “We don’t want lots of batteries on our vans, as a result of, in all the day, we would go 20 miles,” as a result of they’re caught in visitors in Manhattan. That’s completely different from someone in Kansas that is likely to be working a good distance. So, we need to give these choices to clients and allow them to select.
Charged: Are there some conditions the place a buyer assumes they’re going to wish DC quick chargers, however they can get by with the Stage 2 and keep away from a number of the procurement bottlenecks?
John Walsh: Yeah, that’s precisely what occurs. We’ve got our personal charger referred to as the Genius Fleet, which is a Stage 2 charger, 19.2 kilowatts. We really feel prefer it suits with lots of fleet clients as a result of they’re going to make use of a Rivian van or a Ford E-Transit that has roughly 100 kWh of storage on board. The scale of the charger is basically enticing—you don’t should get right into a Stage 3, which might be very costly. And the neat factor concerning the Genius is we now have them in stock. There’s no ready on switchgear or charger {hardware}. If a buyer says, “I would like 10 chargers,” we are able to ship them inside 24 hours. We’ve got them warehoused across the nation.
We make our personal Stage 2 charger in Europe, however the one we now have right here within the US is made for us by IoTecha. After which on the DC charger facet, ZEROVA, Kempower, ABB, a number of of those producers, while you see our label on it, it’s important to stroll across the again of the charger to see that it’s someone else’s. We try this simply from a branding standpoint, however once more, we’re agnostic to the {hardware}. So long as it’s OCPP 1.6-compliant and we get good service from them, we’re completely happy.
The same old questions on traits
Charged: Individuals are predicting a wave of consolidation within the EVSE {hardware} market. There’s lots of firms, and a few them just lately went belly-up: Tritium, Freewire.
John Walsh: I believe it’s a development. There’s completely going to be consolidation. With fleet, college bus and transit, that {hardware} has to fulfill Purchase America requirements. That signifies that that charger must be in-built the US, and it has to have 70% US content material. That shrinks down the variety of firms. Not too long ago, you most likely noticed that Siemens purchased out Heliox. We expect that’s a superb factor as a result of we expect Heliox has a very good product and actually good service.
Are there too many charger firms? I don’t know that there’s ever an excessive amount of of something. I might say we want the precise variety of charger producers that construct good merchandise and might service their merchandise. And that’s the place EO is available in on the service and upkeep facet. However I believe consolidation is completely going to occur.
Charged: How far alongside are we with the Megawatt Charging System?
John Walsh: We’ve got a bunch of them within the floor. We provide a 1.44-megawatt charging system, and I adore it as a result of it’s perhaps half the scale of a van, and it suits within the nook of the depot. I can cost 40 automobiles on one charger, and I can put in a 60 kW, a 150 kW output. I can combine and match it for a buyer, which is very nice. It’s a cost-saver, it’s simpler to take care of, and it permits a buyer to actually scale as a result of they put that within the nook of a depot, after which they will add one other one and one other one, and so they can actually get their entire fleet electrified with out chargers taking on house.
Charged: So, MCS permits you not solely to cost one car at a super-high fee, but it surely permits you to cut up that up. Is that one thing you may’t do with CCS?
John Walsh: You’ll be able to, however you’re restricted—let’s say you’re taking a 150 kW charger, you may put two dispensers on it, however that’s all you are able to do. On this one MCS charger, I can put 40 dispensers, and I can cost concurrently or sequentially. It actually offers you versatility.
Charged: What about V2G? Is it nonetheless a pilot-stage expertise, or have you learnt of some business purposes?
John Walsh: We’re partnering with BorgWarner on V2G. I do know them very well as a result of they acquired Rhombus, which was certainly one of our companions at Proterra. They do have the expertise, but it surely’s nonetheless very a lot in a pilot stage. The varsity bus market actually desires it, and so they need it at scale. I believe V2G will get pushed by the shopper. Residing right here in Florida, if we now have a storm and the electrical energy goes down, properly, I’ve obtained an influence station proper right here—we’ve obtained 1,000 college buses sitting there stuffed with vitality. I simply should have the potential to drag it off that bus and into one other car or a facility. However I nonetheless assume it’s in pilot—I can’t offer you an instance of a business software the place I’m seeing it at scale but.
